


Fireside Chats With Triangles

by Alopex



Category: Gravity Falls
Genre: Gen, M/M, Philosophy, ive seen people wanting more platonic stuff for this ship?, just tagging for the sake of people being able to find it then idk, not really shipping but I mean if you squint a little bit then maybe
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 2014-10-01
Updated: 2014-10-01
Packaged: 2018-02-19 10:53:41
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Chapters: 1
Words: 4,073
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/2385758
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/Alopex/pseuds/Alopex
Summary: <blockquote class="userstuff">
              <p>Based off the idea that Dipper must have quite a lot on his mind after spending a few weeks in Gravity Falls, and that Bill wouldn't mind discussing them with him, if just for the sake of having an intellectual debate on philosophy.</p>
            </blockquote>





	Fireside Chats With Triangles

**Author's Note:**

> This takes place after Sock Opera. I just thought it would be amusing to see Bill talk about philosophy.
> 
> I listened to a lot of Jon Hopkins while writing this, so I would recommend listening to "Private Universe" or "Open Eye Signal." Other suggestions: "A Drifting Up," "The Low Places," "The Hawk," and "The Field."
> 
> Disclaimer: While, as the author, my own opinions are bound to bleed into this work, I cannot necessarily say that I believe in what these characters discuss. This work is the product of my current interpretation and guesses of what the mindscape in Gravity Falls is, coupled with the ideas discussed in a philosophy/skepticism/atheism class I am taking. As such, please pardon any erroneous information, as I cannot say how far my knowledge extends on this subject. The thoughts and ideas of the characters are merely my speculation as to what they could be concerning these topics.

Small fireflies fluttered just outside the triangular window as Dipper watched them through lidded eyes. Their slow movements were mesmerizing, enchanting, and soothing to the boy's hyperactive mind. But alas, he had been watching for hours now, and as night drew on, one by one the tiny bugs edged away from view. As the last insect departed, Dipper sighed, and turned away. Now he had nothing to distract himself with: his sister had long since fallen asleep, he didn't wish to disturb her with a light. Besides, reading the journal made him slightly uneasy that night.

His thoughts involuntarily drifted back to a few days ago, and he shivered. Dipper's body still ached, and some of the nastier cuts from Bill's possession were still in the process of healing. He thought he'd be able to get plenty of rest, and on the first night he did, but he only passed out from mere exhaustion. Since then, he found himself once more unable to sleep, his own mind keeping him up. Too many questions ran through his head, questions which had complex answers, no answers, or simply answers he feared. It was unhealthy, but he found he could do nothing about it.

Existence had taken upon a completely new meaning for him. What exactly did reality entail? Dreaming and waking, was there any difference?

He shook his head. He shouldn't be thinking about this too much. What did it matter to him? Of course reality weighed greater than dreams. But he himself had spent time in the dreamscape... To him, that was real for a while, even though he didn't exist in the real world according to Bill. But technically he could think and move and experience _something_ , so something had to be real. What exactly it entailed he wasn't sure, but at the same time, he felt as though he wasn't ready to know this tidbit of information.

He rubbed his tired eyes, sighing as he thought about how heavy the dark circles under his eyes would be in the morning. Really, he should go to sleep. None of his internal world mattered in the long run, did it?

The world seemed to spin slowly, and Dipper wasn't sure if he was slipping out of consciousness or if his sleep-deprived state led to delirium. The color seemed to bleed out of the room until it was but a wash of dark blues and grays. After color, tone leveled out, and then the very form of the beds and walls and floor seemed to fade into a solid void of gray.

It was pleasant, drifting here, the silence not oppressive and the temperature just right. Dipper drifted through this void. There was nothing tangible here, and his thoughts seemed a little more at ease. Floating was nice, and the endless void removed any feeling of claustrophobia he felt in reality. Here, he didn't feel any pain, emotional or physical. He was simply... There.

No, existence didn't particularly matter in the long run, he concurred.

"Does it really, though?" Came a voice, soft and seemingly gentle, yet Dipper recognized it instantly, letting out a scream from the unexpected intrusion. He bristled from the sound, snapping out of his trance and whirling around, growing tense when he still couldn't find the source of the voice.

"Where are you?" He breathed raggedly, glancing around himself in a panic.

A quiet laugh echoed through the void. "A better question is 'why am I?'"

Dipper groaned, still on edge. "I just got past not worrying about that stuff. This was such a pleasant dream."

"Is it now? As though you wouldn't wake to the same questions that keep you up anyways?"

"I've always preferred to sleep on things. Mornings are better for making decisions and conclusions," Dipper argued with the void.

"Are they? Do questions of this magnitude have solid conclusions?"

The boy fumed, fists clenched as he retorted, "Why should you care? Why are you here, anyways?"

The gray fabric of the universe rippled, a golden triangular shape ripping through it. It blinked as the void shuddered back into place and peered down at Dipper from above before replying. "Usually when humans pose this many questions, they end up in rather nasty situations. You've held out a pretty long time for a noodle-armed creature such as yourself. I can appreciate that."

"So that's it? I'm just a plaything to y- oh, right. Dumb question."

Bill laughed. "See what I mean? Ten seconds into the conversation, and you've already proven to be a smidgen brighter than the general populace. But just a smidgen. Don't give yourself too much credit."

"Whatever. What are you here for, anyways?"

"Good question. Why are we here? What do you think, Pine Tree?" the demon asked, circling the boy with a curious expression.

"Because you created this dream for your own twisted purposes?"

Bill laughed, "Oh, no, definitely not. You are the one dreaming here, I am merely a guest! Of course, I can rearrange things, drop in a couple giant one-eyed bats or ten-jawed wolves, but that's for another story."

"So you're just here to torment me?" Dipper groaned, folding his arms.

"Pine Tree, Pine Tree, you were doing so well just moments ago! I already said, you ask so many delightful questions I simply couldn't resist in joining in, are you deaf?"

"Every time you show up 'just to talk,' something goes awry," Dipper huffed.

Bill ignored him, delving straight into Dipper's earlier ponderings. "You seem awfully concerned about your existence. Heavy questions for a tiny thing like you!"

Dipper grumbled, "You tend to reassess things when you lose your body for a day, and watch it run around and slam into walls. Repeatedly." He sighed, turning away as he looked up. "I don't even know what's real anymore."

"'Anymore?' Did you have an idea at one point, then? What used to be real to you?"

"I guess just... Being awake in my body," Dipper mumbled, still trying to organize his thoughts. "But now I'm not sure what that truly means."

"So having a body is what makes you real?"

"I'd guess so."

"Are you saying that I am not real, simply because I don't have a body?" Bill inquired, feigning hurt.

"I..." Dipper paused. "I'd guess you're real? By definition, at least? I can interact with you, whatever that means."

"Definitions are great, but how did you derive that one?"

Dipper thought for a minute. "Experience, from my own and from others."

"Others," Bill scoffed. "You trust others? Those bumbling wrecks you mortals call friends, scholars, people of any 'authority?'"

"Don't I have to trust others?"

"Oh, Pine Tree. There are _so_ many things, _so_ many people in your life who you don't have to trust," Bill replied, squinting gleefully. "Your little journal will tell you that countless times."

"Fair point," Dipper agreed reluctantly. "But if I can't trust ancient schools of thought, who can I trust?"

"When you are solving a mystery, and that grimy old book doesn't have the answer, your peers are unqualified, and adults refuse to give information, what do you do?"

"Usually I just go after it myself."

"Exactly, you trust _yourself_! I believe you humans call it the empire metho-"

"Empirical," Dipper corrected instantly.

"Empirical method," Bill repeated. "That thing. And tell me, has it helped you?"

"Oh, loads!" Dipper replied excitedly, finally reaching grounds he was comfortable with.

"And through it, I take it you've gathered evidence to refute the claims of these so called 'superiors?'"

"Yes," the boy stated, allowing a hint of pride to seep into his voice.

"With this method, I'm sure you can delve into many questions. Why not use it for the ones you are posing now? Tell me, Dipper. How do _you_ experience that which you perceive as real?"

"Uhmm... I can see it? Touch it?"

"The senses, then."

"Yeah," Dipper agreed hesitantly.

"So your claim is that the senses are how you experience things and know they are real."

"I guess? I mean, by definition - sorry," Dipper flinched at Bill's glare. "I know you don't like that word, but by definition, that's how you gather empirical data."

"You guess? All you've been doing is guessing. You have to be more confident in your answers, Pine Tree! Anyways," he waved a hand, continuing. "So let's say the senses help you comprehend reality, but what about those dreams that just 'feel real?' Are they not real? Am I not real?"

"Well, it's not external information since your mind fabricates it, so probably not. Except for you," Dipper added. "I'm not sure what you are."

"Me neither. We'll cover that later. But for now – is the mind a fabrication or simply another plane of existence?"

"I can't tell you that, I don't have enough evidence for this."

"Let's test this, then, gather the evidence! You mentioned senses; what are the senses?"

"Sight, sound-" Dipper started.

"Good, good! Describe what you see and hear!"

"Well... There's a lot of gray around me-"

"Boring! Describe _me_!" Bill practically screeched excitedly, waving his arms wildly.

Dipper blinked. "Oh. Well, you're yellow, the shape of an isosceles triangle, you're wearing a black top hat and bow tie, you look... Pleased with yourself? Happy? I can hear your annoying voice."

"Artless descriptions, but I'll let it slide. So those senses stand in the mindscape. What's another?"

"Touch?"

"Ah, touch. A very fun one. My favorite is the one that elicits pain!"

"I know," Dipper rolled his eyes. "But this is a dream, so I can't feel it, can I?"

Bill tilted slightly to the side, as if to peer at the boy. "You can't just say something like that and not test it, can you? Empathetic method, or whatever its called, we talked about this." With these words, he drifted over to the boy, poking him then grabbing his arm. "So what do you feel?"

"A pressure around my wrist?" Dipper answered uncertainly.

"Ah, so you _can_ feel in your dreams! How about this?" He asked, extending and wrapping his thin arms around Dipper in a makeshift hug, which to him felt more like having a long snake coiled around his waist.

"Gross, let go of me!" Dipper protested, trying to wiggle out of his grip, which was surprisingly tight.

"Don't you like hugs? I had assumed you would!"

"Not from you," he grumbled.

"Well aren't we picky!" Bill teased, still maintaining his hold. "Let's move on. What's left?"

"Smell?"

"Oooh, smell. Never particularly understood that one. Especially that one thing your body does to produce it when you move around too much or get nervous. Like right now, how gross."

"I don't smell in the mindscape!"

"I dunno, kid, _my_ senses are telling me otherwise. What are yours saying?"

Dipper huffed, but tried sniffing the air. He (thankfully) couldn't smell himself, but he did sense something pleasantly sweet, though it wasn't something he could describe in one word.

"I can't quite place it. It's like a forest, or what I think magic could smell like. It's kind of nice," he admitted.

"Aww, I've been told that before," Bill replied, his eye glinting mischievously.

"Wait, that's you?!" Dipper exclaimed, reddening in realization, squirming uncomfortably against Bill's grasp again.

The demon only laughed in response, but neither supported nor refuted his comment. "I believe there's one more sense left."

"Taste."

"Ah, taste. That weird thing the fleshy beast in your mouth does. But does it work in the mindscape?"

"I dunno. I mean, if you summon food or something I could try it out..."

"Done," Bill replied, snapping his fingers. A whole selection of foods appeared, fruits, vegetables, meats of all sorts.

 Dipper finally untangled himself from Bill's arms, and drifted over the hoard, plucking a golden peach from the pile. He bit into it and was practically overwhelmed with the richness of the flavor. He couldn't recall _ever_ eating a fruit like this in the waking world!

"Well?" Bill looked up expectantly.

"Delicious," Dipper managed, his mouth full.

Bill floated around Dipper in a circle. "Good! See, the five senses do exist in this realm. Did they feel real?"

"Yeah."

"So because your senses function in this plane, then this must abide to your definition of 'real.'"

"Well, I'm not sure now. See, this is my problem! I always thought that it was just the waking world versus the dreaming world, but I spent time in the mindscape," Dipper huffed, floating back and forth worriedly. "I wasn't dreaming but I couldn't interact in the real world. I don't know what that means for me now. I mean, religion was always a tricky subject for me but- wait, why are you laughing?"

Bill had indeed broken into a loud fit of giggles. "Oh, Dipper, you are hilarious! Religion? You buy that? You _really_ buy that?"

"Not really, but you don't really kno-"

"Here I am, a floating, as you like to call it, _Dorito_ , with cosmic abilities far beyond mortal comprehension and you still question if there's a single higher power? Boy, and I thought you had more smarts than the others!"

"That's not the point here!"

"But is it not what it always boils down to? The human question to end all human questions? 'What is the beyond?' Boy, I cannot recount the number of times someone's thought that," Bill muttered, rolling his eye.

Dipper rubbed the bridge of his nose. "I can't even figure out what is here, how do you expect me to comprehend the beyond? I... I really don't want to think about that now."

Bill floated up above the boy once more, peering down at him wickedly. "Ah, the infinite unknown, what a delightful thought! Nothing to be _afraid_ of, is it?"

Dipper shuddered at his words, blanching as he realized the demon was picking away at his innermost fears. "I don't think I'm ready to discuss that yet, Bill," he stated firmly. "Again, I can't even differentiate dreams with reality anymore. It's all too much of a blend. I'd say that the difference is that in dreams the laws of nature don't apply, but I'm in Gravity Falls. I'm pretty sure even entropy and the laws of motion function differently here."

"Dreams and reality, reality and dreams," Bill mused. "You certain that's all? I mean, if it's all so vague in your opinion."

"I mean, I'm sure there's tons of dimensions out there, but I'm not really sure how to access them. There's just being awake and being asleep. Do those count as dimensions?"

"Oh, there are plenty of dimensions, but you're overlooking a big one."

"I am?"

"You've named two, but you yourself have experienced a third!"

Dipper thought for a minute. "You mean whatever I went through when I was kicked out of my body?"

"Ding ding ding, we've got a winner!" Bill screeched, flashing brightly with each word.

Dipper crossed his legs, resting his elbows on his knees. "Three planes of existence, then?"

"You have no idea how many more there are, kid. But let's stick with three for the time being."

"That... That actually explains quite a bit," Dipper mused, perking up slightly. "So there's the 'real' world? The physical? And then there's whatever my mind makes up when I dream. But then there's this other middle ground between the two?"

"More or less. It's a little more complex than that, but it's a good start."

"But you're technically real, right?"

"Perhaps," the triangle replied, closing his eye.

"You are a separate entity, are you not?" Dipper rephrased.

"Energy, entity, existing thing, something like that," Bill said, waving his arm.

"But you can't exist in my world unless you have a body. You've spent all this time just floating alongside people and following them around?"

Bill shrugged nonchalantly. "Yeah. You know, just watching over people. Learning their secrets. Sometimes being summoned. It depends."

"A little creepy," Dipper concurred. Bill was about to shoot him an angry glare, but Dipper's features softened as he considered the demon's activities, continuing, "Seems like a pretty lonely existence. Isn't there anyone else in the mindscape with you?"  
  
Bill looked pained for a few moments, but shook that off. "Sometimes. Sometimes..."

"Really? Who?" Dipper asked, genuinely curious.

"I'd prefer not to talk about them. Half of them can be summoned simply by saying their names out loud. Tell me, you wouldn't happen to appreciate a constantly swirling mass of molasses, teeth, and stray hairs appearing in your dream, would you? No, I didn't think so," Bill concluded as Dipper shook his head in horror.

"There are beings like that?"  
"Oh, you can't even comprehend the mere sight of some of these, let alone what they have to say. It takes a whole new level of existence to do just that!"

"So you _are_ in a different state of being, then?"

"Do you think something like me abides by the laws of the plane you call home? Don't think so," Bill answered as Dipper shook his head no.

"If the laws of my world don't apply to you, then what rules do you abide by?"

"You think rules can stop me?" Bill countered.

"Well, I'm not sure. I mean, even in religions or stories or whatever they are to you, I think higher powers had some sort of limit?"

Bill tapped his fingers together in thought for a moment. "Hmm. I need an example here. Let's pretend for a second that your Christian God exists. Tell me, are his rules your rules?"

"I guess it depends. I mean, there's things you can physically do, and what you should or shouldn't do."

"Oh, fair point," Bill hummed. "So, physical powers and... What's that other thing you humans worry so much about?"

"Morals?"  
  
"Ah, yes, that useless thing that stops humans from having fun! So tell me, what's the difference between your morality and 'God's' morality?"

"Shouldn't it be the same?"

Bill laughed, "Oh, no! Use your smarts, kid. Would you murder someone?"

Dipper looked unsettled. "Of course not! Killing people isn't right."

"But isn't there a story, belief, whatever, that He once wiped out an entire population?"

Dipper looked thoughtful. "Yeah, the Flood?"

"Yes, that. I feel like we could do with another," Bill chuckled under his breath. "So if you think taking a life is bad, then why is your God allowed to do that?"

Dipper shrugged. "I don't know."

"Ah, don't know! A valid answer. Admitting that is a pretty big step for you humans! But take a guess, it's not like there's fault in guessing wrong when we're dealing with stories."

Dipper managed a weak smile. "Well, if God is supposedly in charge of all of us, shouldn't he get to decide what to do? I guess it doesn't _have_ to apply to the rest of us."

"Why shouldn't it? Your government officials represent and order you around, but don't they have to follow the same rules?"

"True," Dipper agreed.

Bill floated down to eye level. "So would it make sense to remain subordinate to something that doesn't follow its own rules that it created?"

"I think that's more subjective."

"Subjective," Bill muttered. "If something is a pain, it's subjectivism. Never mind that! How about the other limit, physical capacity?"

"Well if God technically created the world he'd probably have more power than the rest of us."

"Perhaps. So can He create something even He can't lift, or can he simply not create something bigger than he can lift?" Dipper remained silent as he pondered Bill's question, but the demon cut his thoughts short. "Quite the dilemma, is it not?"

"Yeah."

"So then, at the very least we can agree that rules and abilities do differ over the separate planes."

"Sure," Dipper shrugged, then asked: "So if you're an 'entity,' then does that make me?"

"An unwashed twelve year-old human male?"

"I showered three days ago, I'm fine," Dipper retorted. "No, I mean... I've got at least two parts, if they could be separated. There's my body, which apparently can be taken by other... Spirits? Energies? And then there was... My own spirit? My consciousness?"

"I guess there's a little consciousness in you."

"Are you saying that I'm a mere speck in the universe, or are you just calling me stupid?"

"Both."

Dipper sighed; he might be having an intellectual discussion with the demon, but he remained the jerk he always was regardless. "But really, Bill. If we can separate the two, then what constitutes the spirit?"

Bill eyed the boy with a mixture of concern and bemusement. "Whoa, kid, don't get in over your head. You think I can give you that sort of knowledge? The human race isn't ready for this."

"Why not?" Dipper asked, floating up to face the demon at eye level.

"Well first off, it's really, _really_ funny watching you mortals run around trying to figure it out and prove each other wrong. Second, that's not something your species can even comprehend yet. You'll learn one day, don't you worry, Pine Tree."

"But didn't you say you were a being of pure energy? Is the soul just energy?"

"In the most simplest of terms. I don't have a corporeal body attached to my existence, but we've proven that I am real, so I would be made of 'pure,' or one-hundred percent energy that you can't destroy. I think there was a rule about that? However, it's not really a full explanation," Bill drawled. "There are many more details concerning that, but I won't be going into that today."

"Ok. I have another question."

"And I have a vague and mildly disconcerting answer! Ask away, kid."

"So when I am 'awake,' I have a body that my soul controls, but when I am asleep, my soul can go into this other plane, this dream world? And it can be in the mindscape? I'm still confused about the whole 'levels of existence' thing."

"Ah, the difference between a dream and your adventure in the dreamscape?"

"Yeah."

"Think about it."

"Hmm. Well within my mind, I can create whatever I want to, but when I had no body, it was as if nothing changed except no one could see me" and I could float."

"Three different ways of being, each with their own specific 'rules,'" Bill summed up.

Dipper perked up, "Yeah, that makes sense."

"But how can you exist in three different ways? I think this leads us right back to your first question. What is existence?"

Dipper groaned, "Yeah, this again."

"Hey, don't fret! You know this much: you can't simply switch between the two. You can dream, but that requires going to sleep, and it was quite the odd occasion that you got to experience being out of your body without actually sleeping. It takes quite the magic to do that."

"That was just a weird circumstance. A rather annoying one, really," Dipper glared at Bill to let him know the incidence wasn't forgotten. "So the state of your existence is based on circumstance?"

"You could probably describe it as such."

"But what does that even mean?" Dipper grumbled. "Circumstance? This is all too confusing."

"It sure is," Bill assured, then glanced about him. "Well, I have to get going! What a pleasant chat we had, I look forward to more!" Bill finished, tilting his top hat.

"Wait, you're gonna leave now? But I still have so many questions, and we were just getting started!"

"Oh, Pine Tree, you will _always_ have too many questions than is good for you. As I said, we'll talk again soon! Here's a last bit of food for thought, consider it a little hint: reality is an illusion, so keep that in mind as you traverse your mortal realm!"

With that, the demon vanished in a burst of blinding light. As the void rippled back into place, Dipper couldn't help but feel as though it got a little dimmer, a little duller. He sighed, curling up in the air. Sure, the talk might have answered a few questions, but now he had so many more! He wondered when Bill would visit him next; despite his occasional jest, Bill seemed almost eager to guide him in discussion. What sort of profit the demon could have on this, Dipper had no idea, but as long as he stayed away from any deal-making, there probably wasn't much harm in their talks.

Probably.


End file.
